2013 Spyder RT Limited SM5 reverse works but won't back up a hill due to limiter

[PonderosaRT]

My 2013 Spyder has been unable to back up using reverse gear on anything but a level surface since day one. It shifts into reverse just fine, but there is no power available when in reverse. This "safety feature" electronically limits the revs when in reverse. I presume that this is to prevent someone from unintentionally backing up at high speed. The power I get at the rear wheel is barely enough to move the machine at walking speed while in reverse on a level surface. Backing uphill, even slightly uphill is impossible. I see that Can Am ATVs have this feature but they also have a manual override button to make backing up possible in any situation. I've searched the forums on this site high and low and have seen at least two descriptions of this same exact problem but none of the comments were of any help. I've called several dealers in several different states and none could offer any assistance, so please don't suggest calling a dealer unless you know from personal experience of a dealer that can truly help with this problem - in that case please give me their contact info. Also, please don't lecture me about how to operate a clutch and/or throttle. After well over 50 years in the saddle and behind the wheel of hundreds of different motorcycles, cars and trucks I think I have the hang of manual transmissions by now. Learning to live with this defect (NOT a feature) is not acceptable. I don't care if my Spyder is "protecting" me from racing up my driveway backwards at 50 mph. As it is, I can't pull out of my driveway at all (it's all uphill from my garage), so I have to stop at the top and back it all the way down. Not convenient, and if I forget and just pull into the garage like any normal person operating any normal vehicle then I need to maneuver this cumbersome rig 180 degrees before I can get out of my drive.

I know this topic has been brought up by others somewhere on the forums but I haven't seen any solutions to this problem. Can anyone help?

Thanks!

 

[Mikey]

Your forward movement OK, no slippage??

 

[Peter Aawen]

The 'Reverse Safety Feature' simply restricts your Spyder's speed to no more than 9 mph/15 kph when in Reverse gear - but it sounds like yours isn't letting you go anywhere near that fast, so it sounds like something else is wrong...

Sure, there's gonna be less traction when in Reverse and trying to go uphill, but even with the speed restriction, you still should be able to spin the rear wheel in Reverse gear, at least a little. My 2013 RT Ltd certainly can, and unless there's a traction issue, like loose gravel, wet leaves, etc, it can also reverse uphill at speeds of up to 15 kph with relative ease before the speed limit function kicks in! It's done it on some pretty steep hills, too!

You don't see a VSS or traction control light flash when you try to Reverse uphill, do you?

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Well, the specific drivability issue that the OP is describing is probably a bug, but there was no documented fix. Brand new machines were doing this - all SM5. Chatter on the forum from back around 2012 - 2013, once you sort through it all, appears to show that what the OP is describing, was first witnessed around that time frame negatively affecting only the RT SM5. The SE5 operated in reverse normally. So, did the GS/RS SM5s. If you have an SE5 you probably never experienced this exact problem. Some say RPM is limited in reverse to about 2000 RPM. Others say higher, but also getting input from rear wheel speed. Pretty low RPM for torque from a 998. Any rear wheel slippage and the engine would sometimes shut down. There was a lot of word of mouth from actual experience, but nothing actually in writing in any manuals. People pretty much had to adjust to it and operate the throttle and clutch to work around it. Looks like something introduced with the 2010 RT, and some folks had thoughts that a software update around 2011 or 12 made it worse. Regardless, numerous dealers were contacted and all said that this was "normal" behavior. Of course they did. No adjustment. No solutions. A lot of frustration. So, Sorry there Ponderosa. There's just nothing to do but park accordingly...or trade up.

 

[PonderosaRT]

Your forward movement OK, no slippage??

The machine operates normally and runs perfectly except for when in reverse, when the "limiter" kicks in. I suspect that for some reason some 2013 RTs with SM5 have this problem. I've seen comments from owners of 2012s and even some 2013s that can back their trikes up steep trailer ramps. Mine will only operate in reverse on flat ground.

 

[PonderosaRT]

Well, the specific drivability issue that the OP is describing is probably a bug, but there was no documented fix. Brand new machines were doing this - all SM5. Chatter on the forum from back around 2012 - 2013, once you sort through it all, appears to show that what the OP is describing, was first witnessed around that time frame negatively affecting only the RT SM5. The SE5 operated in reverse normally. So, did the GS/RS SM5s. If you have an SE5 you probably never experienced this exact problem. Some say RPM is limited in reverse to about 2000 RPM. Others say higher, but also getting input from rear wheel speed. Pretty low RPM for torque from a 998. Any rear wheel slippage and the engine would sometimes shut down. There was a lot of word of mouth from actual experience, but nothing actually in writing in any manuals. People pretty much had to adjust to it and operate the throttle and clutch to work around it. Looks like something introduced with the 2010 RT, and some folks had thoughts that a software update around 2011 or 12 made it worse. Regardless, numerous dealers were contacted and all said that this was "normal" behavior. Of course they did. No adjustment. No solutions. A lot of frustration. So, Sorry there Ponderosa. There's just nothing to do but park accordingly...or trade up.

I agree that the problem is probably a "bug". I know I'm not the only victim of this and I'm surprised that the robust community of spyderlovers seems not to have documented a solution. Based on the popularity of these machines, there must have been a substantial number of 2013 Spyders with SM5 manufactured that have this problem. I am able to work around it by planning ahead but surely there must be a fix. So far, dealers have been no help and I haven't found anyone at the factory who will communicate with me about this. There is no "operating the throttle and clutch to work around it". If I were to park this thing pointed nose down on any slope at all it will be sitting there until I get enough warm bodies to help me push it back out of the hole. I'm sure many spyderlovers have visited Ouray, CO. Imagine parking on the west side of Main St. where all of the spots are nose-in on a fairly steep angle, and then realizing that your 1,000 lb machine is stranded because of a "bug" that nobody seems to know how to fix.

I won't be trading up. With only 1972 miles on the odometer this trike doesn't get ridden much. I bought it to please my wife and now she won't ride anymore, so I guess I'll be selling it soon. I just thought I'd try to fix this reverse limiter issue before I put it up for sale. This Spyder RT is in near perfect condition and does everything else that it should but just won't back up a hill. I'd like to fix that before passing it along to the next owner.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

The machine operates normally and runs perfectly except for when in reverse, when the "limiter" kicks in. I suspect that for some reason some 2013 RTs with SM5 have this problem. I've seen comments from owners of 2012s and even some 2013s that can back their trikes up steep trailer ramps. Mine will only operate in reverse on flat ground.

All I can say is look closely at those comments from owners that have no problems. Look at their signature or bio. Many, if not all, have the SE5.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

I feel your pain. Well, maybe not literally, but you get the idea. Been on here since 2012, and never heard of a fix on the forum. No bulletins. No fix. No solution. Operating as designed, not as desired. Just sell it. My personal theory, was that some engineer set the limit lower on the SM5, because they didn’t need to account for the higher RPM for the centrifugal clutch to begin engagement. (Yes, I saw your bio ) With the 1330 on the horizon, being delayed, and the 2013s going up in flames, there was no need to focus on it. Priorities. I hope that you can accept that there is no fix. Good luck.

 

[PonderosaRT]

The 'Reverse Safety Feature' simply restricts your Spyder's speed to no more than 9 mph/15 kph when in Reverse gear - but it sounds like yours isn't letting you go anywhere near that fast, so it sounds like something else is wrong...

Sure, there's gonna be less traction when in Reverse and trying to go uphill, but even with the speed restriction, you still should be able to spin the rear wheel in Reverse gear, at least a little. My 2013 RT Ltd certainly can, and unless there's a traction issue, like loose gravel, wet leaves, etc, it can also reverse uphill at speeds of up to 15 kph with relative ease before the speed limit function kicks in! It's done it on some pretty steep hills, too!

You don't see a VSS or traction control light flash when you try to Reverse uphill, do you?

No lights. I wasn't even aware that such lights existed.

I just went out and backed it up and watched the dash. No lights but I did watch the tach. The limiter intermittently kicked in at 2000 RPM and then sometimes at 3000 RPM. At the lower RPM there is not enough power to back up a slope. At 3000 RPM there is and it did. I tried this several times and sometimes I was able to move (3000 RPM) and other times not (2000 RPM). I'm not sure if it was the steepness of the slope or something else that made it operate differently from one minute to the next. It also seemed to work better if I started moving in reverse on flat ground and then started going uphill - once moving it seemed to work better. Starting from a stop on the slope did not work. I'm thinking this is a software bug that can only be fixed with a tool that has access to the software. I can't seem to find that tool in my toolbox.

 

[BajaRon]

The 2013 RT was somewhat of a White Elephant. It was supposed to get the 1330 motor. But at the last minute, BRP decided to slap the 998 V-Twin in that bike which had been completly redesigned to accept the 1330.

Bozo's with earlier models like my 2008 GS made videos of themselves doing 35 mph in reverse. Some managed to flip their Spyders doing this. I'd say this is what inspired BRP to install this limiter. My guess is that the 1330 would do fine with a 2K limit on RPM in reverse. But the 998, not so good. Just guessing there.

No lights. I wasn't even aware that such lights existed.

I just went out and backed it up and watched the dash. No lights but I did watch the tach. The limiter intermittently kicked in at 2000 RPM and then sometimes at 3000 RPM. At the lower RPM there is not enough power to back up a slope. At 3000 RPM there is and it did. I tried this several times and sometimes I was able to move (3000 RPM) and other times not (2000 RPM). I'm not sure if it was the steepness of the slope or something else that made it operate differently from one minute to the next. It also seemed to work better if I started moving in reverse on flat ground and then started going uphill - once moving it seemed to work better. Starting from a stop on the slope did not work. I'm thinking this is a software bug that can only be fixed with a tool that has access to the software. I can't seem to find that tool in my toolbox.

My guess would be wheel spin. As soon as the computer detects wheel spin, even slighly, the VSS kicks in and kills the RPM.